real hell in the throat from pain
choose your fortress and trust your throat
fortress cortez from throat pain
cool
innovations for health
[music]
nations with the head of the faction in parliament
servants of the people Davido Marakhimiyu We
meet here in the park once to
war There were such formal and
informal meetings of deputies And we
meet on the day when another article of the frinf is published about where Ukraine
hints that it is obvious that negotiations should be conducted with Russia and somehow
talk about
reconciliation we talk to a person who
twice received a mandate to negotiate with
Russians so this
topic will be
the main one in
our interview Well, of course, about other things
so we turn on
turbo mode Let me take a professional selfie
selfie
[music]
photographer, let's Smile like this
bitter bitter bitter Well, you see, congratulations
David, I am shocked by the articles that
come out One after another, no one
is to blame for me Well, that's right In
this sense Well, we went for it, someone
made a decision in Ukraine and we will, well
to fight on their own or to yield
the military-political leadership
elections, what have you lost your mind
took on all the obligations to lead
him through the hardships of Ukraine
as one team, there is no time
to figure out who is right and who is wrong
what
will it end with? How will it end when
[music]
the council ends, it's good to see you all
the last time we saw each other, you know when we didn't
mention anything. When we saw each other on February 14th
2022, it's for that program that I
still feel ashamed that we said there would be no
war, you should be ashamed
ashamed of the turbo regime, that is, you European
institutions praised you precisely for the turbo regime
But what started working during the war and
and we talked about the fact that the turbo regime has been
working since 19th year and only now you
realized that it really exists
are you satisfied with it yourself? Yes, I am
very satisfied, the mono-majority
formally exists or it exists conditionally
and you still have to collect votes
because once you said that your
strong side is when you can
put a swan, a crab, and a pike together and make them
agree with each other and with you
and now we don't have internal
now now appeared in the last
several months ago exactly what you
touched on about elections when they started
some discussions about elections. And before
that, thank God, for a year and a half we
didn't have any opposition, coalition, we just
worked as a parliament. There is a parliament and
there are some groups of people and we
united opinions there and it worked. Now
it's a bit broken, but I think now
when everyone finally understands that there will be no
elections. Maybe we can just start over
not everyone understands yet. Well, there are still
some rumors in regional headquarters that someone
is preparing something, making lists. Well, if
people want to spend extra money
instead of buying something for the front, well
internal communication between the president and
you says that there will be no elections
right. So his statement. I think let's
go next year, I don't
think there can be any elections at all. Not presidential, parliamentary
or local. Do you often attend events
or are you
forced to
participate in elections? No
one does.
Forced They were really lonely
politicians who talked about how Here you go
maybe you will need to sit down for
negotiations with the Russians or someone else
there in a broader circle and then if you
are conditionally illegitimate there then
there may be questions for you maybe you
need to hold elections that was
the discussion you know Well when you just
get to the specifics you say And how will the
military vote or run for office And how 6
Millions of people abroad have to cast
their votes. And how can they do it
so that the air alarm doesn't last
all day, for example, it could be in the air and
no one will come to the elections, and so on
they don't have answers and no one has
answers to these questions, actually, and
they say, Well, okay, okay, work
as you worked. Uh, so they can
prove the theorem theoretically, but
they can't solve equations. So if you
need to vote for some law
bill, you often
use the votes
of other factions.
interested in OPZZ, very simple for me
attitude towards this process. For me, every deputy is a
vote. My job is
very simple, to collect
votes, if their votes are there, I immediately
sit down with the security service and say OPZZ, it
is also heterogeneous like any other
faction or party, there were businessmen
many who took the flag of OPZZ because someone
there was selling or giving it and entered
this Parliament under the flag of OPZZ. Although they
have no political ambitions at all. What are your feelings, oligarchs, have they
withdrawn their hands from the deputies, how much
has it decreased? I
can say that in this
in this parliament, there are already elected
currently, since the beginning of the war, there are no oligarchs
not even by
1%, although they were in this same parliament before
the war. I think it's around 30%. and their influence was
Yeah, so you don't feel the hand of
Ahmetov or Kolomoisky or Firtash or
Poroshenko. Well, if we consider him an oligarch, then of course he has
a whole political force and a very loud one in
such a context. So, all those other surnames you mentioned
are not currently in parliament. No
Stolar, no Gerekh, no Kitasya, nobody. And
Gerekh, I don't
even know why. Honestly
speaking, he left. I
think he went to
parliament when there was
immunity. He practically bought
immunity, but he didn't understand that
the Servant of the People would come and in just two
weeks, immunity would simply grow. Yeah
I think there was a mistake in this
part of the deputies left
abroad during the war. Who
got caught up in some
vacations and resorts. There are already well-known
stories of deputies Tishchenko, Aristov, Khodov, Torokhtiy
and others. How do you work with them? Do you have any
I mean, you are some kind of a comrade or
something, I don't know, you are in such positions.
you need to speak or some psychologist
or the senior in the room I don't know how you
can manage this substance You
apologize But what is called a faction
you with them then what after these flights how
you with them
talk What do you say to them and
I can't
look at it With whom I'm talking
Well, there you can talk to someone I can talk to
if I talked to you here you
would pick everything all the time Yes I can talk to someone
talk to add his logic somehow there
Yes, don't talk to anyone at all
so what for example after going out
aristova Well, there's nothing to say Well, how
a person at all even before the war Maldives
it's after Petro Oleksiyovych it was already
taboo for any politician and
during the war Maldives Well, I called him
I say write a statement everything well
there's nothing to discuss Yeah There
growled There was a slightly different situation there
he first from his first
marriage child he went to accompany
the first time And he supposedly got out of it
He told me I looked checked the fact
that there was a child and I said Well, I
even went to defend him publicly but
then it turned out that on the way
using this good patriotic idea
they went somewhere far away Well, for that I
say well then go Well, you yourself Kuznetsov
your own happiness As they say, yes Well, let
people simply choose themselves They don't
understand what
it is Well, it seems to me that you know that the
coolest things that bring you back
to earth are to go to the front
Well, if you don't go, you know, it's a tourist
the journey is such And to stay
the nights are the first
and the second is a refreshing moment when I
when I travel through Ukraine I visit
the
cemetery you see these new sectors with
flags it's in every city and everything and
then it's all clear to you and when you
want well it's clear that all people and there
after some time there already years it's hard
to hold such moments yes
everything returns to its place Well instantly
just need it Well to yourself
to realize then everything will be fine
you will work as much as you need and
the servant of the people project will exist
it will be 100% look the project no longer
need to say the project we still
made a party When we went to the elections it
was not a party it was a project it will
still be Under the wing of the president we have
the servant of the people party It is still
with us there will be a lot of changes from the point of view
of personnel because we monitor everyone we
are not making any moves now so as not to
send this signal to space this
signal About the elections Well if we now
crucify the whole party it will be
a signal that we are preparing for something and
then everyone because of great distrust
political distrust of all others will
start preparing and quarrels will start again
so why don't we do it but it doesn't mean
that we don't do homework we do a lot
of work we analyze we have people
with whom we want to go as a political force and with whom
we definitely won't go anywhere
it seems that you don't have
such direct contact with the president
it seems that the President doesn't even
hesitate the servant party
of the people for all these embarrassing situations that
happen from time to time with the deputies
of this party faction Come on, make a huge distance
between him and the party and faction
well at least a public distance well that's
right I think And why should he
be responsible for Ristova's behavior or
rattling or Tishchenko Well, I think it's
our internal work and
mistake We have to
fix it ourselves Definitely not
interfere with the president there the president and
so the head is overwhelmed with all other
challenges that exist in the country what else
politics is not enough to deal with
well he definitely doesn't need to deal with this
now but the phenomenon of Tishchenko if you mentioned this name twice
I remember the elections in Frankivsk
I remember his arrival in
polling station
where he was protecting the very
polling station. But I remember meeting with
the community in Thailand and I remember these
eternal disputes there, call centers from
the last thing that catches the eye. He
where does he get the mandate for such actions? He
a rocket of all-directional actions. We call him
he can take any
topic, see the problem and
go on his own. What kind of educational conversation do you have with him?
I have had hundreds. No, we have already
expelled him from the faction. And that's it. I say
Let's go, you are an independent person. There
No, we are not from the party, we have long been out of the party.
in any city where it was possible and
I say you are a member of parliament during the war
new challenges. Show yourself during the war
maybe people. Well, he is a majoritarian, so
he
voted for Svatoshyina and says "Go and
Svatoshyina may give votes again
for you, well, prove it. Prove that
you are a statesman. He is looking for different
directions of work, including call centers. Well, in fact, something needs to be done with call centers. You see how many of them there are, they are
just hundreds. And they are all illegal, they
rob our European
partners. Well, the main thing
is that
we don't pay tribute to them.
Our Ukrainian friends have already taken a look
I don't know who is taking money there I know that
Well, there are
hundreds of criminal cases hundreds
of criminal cases precisely from
European partners based on
complaints from
affected pensioners and others
So, what does this call center do? It
calls as Some financial
such I
superhero Well, he took this topic somehow
Although it became known earlier these
call centers were working no one even knew
about them except for a narrow circle and the police
did not know they are looking for firefighters the police is looking for
Well, you see, Mykola Mykolayovych will somehow
resolve this situation, I think, uh-huh, uh-huh, and
maybe not, well, we'll see, clearly
Dubinsky, what do you
think about this character, state treason -
This is a serious
accusation, I don't know, I want to read
when all this information will be published, then we will have some kind of Su
some kind of judgment, I don't know, well, the fact that he participated in these
American elections is a fact, for this he received sanctions, I
believe that this was well proven, and what
happens next, I don't
know, don't you regret
that Shevchenko
was expelled
No, well, I communicate with him normally, he
by the way, during the war, he helped a lot, I
about it, about his cooperation with the main
intelligence department, he helped a lot, he was the first call to my phone
from Lukashenko, when only the first day
of the war, he organized it, Lukashenko
separately even told himself, yes, that is
he was
Such an interesting story, a couple of
months ago he comes up to me
excited and says we need to do something
about the media, otherwise we might
end up like Belarus in a negative
context. I tell him, "Zhenya, just a
year ago you said that Belarus is a
beautiful country." You see how people
change, it's just amazing. From him
we can become like Belarus." I say, "But
you yourself promoted Belarus just a year
ago." He says, "Well, yes, he really
changed the media. I talked to him
and he says that I didn't say everything
back then. He says, "You didn't watch my
film about Belarus, I talked about
some negative aspects of life in
Belarus." Well, he figured it out now. I
understand what Belarus is, especially
after how they behaved during the war." "Yeah, what were you talking about
when Shevchenko gave you the phone?" "Well, we didn't know
what to expect from Belarus at all. It
was when the conversation took place. I
think it was the 23rd or 22nd, I think
maybe the 24th or the first day or
maybe the second day, rather the evening
of the first day." "Yeah, well, the president refused
to talk to him. And I said, "I'll put
a loudspeaker on the microphone so
that at least we can hear everything."
some information even if you don't
trust it. Well, at least listen to it. And he
then said
that we will not fight with Ukraine, he
said. I can't. He honestly said, I
can't
allow them to use my
infrastructure and not
enter or launch missiles through Belarus, but I
guarantee that no Belarusian soldier will
cross the border of Ukraine. We didn't
believe it and there were many provocations
that were thrown at us, some heavy
said that disguised Belarusian
soldiers are fighting, but then
it was never confirmed. Well, you have to
give credit where it's due, the word still
holds for Grygorovych, he demanded something from
Ukraine, he didn't demand anything at all, he
offered his services as a mediator. Then
we agreed to meet for the first time
at the Belarus-Ukraine border, we agreed to meet
in Bialowieza Forest, yes, he said, this is my
Fazenda or something like that, he has
hunting estates there. And he says
come there and we went. Well, the logistics
were so difficult. We went
by train first to Poland, then from
Poland we boarded the
train to...
Her NATO helicopters flew to the military base in Belarus. It seems that this
was the only several times when NATO
helicopters landed on the territory of
Belarus and then transferred to
Belarusian military helicopters and then
landed there. They were nervous. Lukashenko gave each
delegate two or three
bodyguards. So
there were
bodyguards there.
three times more
than the negotiators themselves
had set as the goal of those
talks. Well, the first
one was when I asked the president
what we would consider successful
negotiations. Well, the initial
phase. He says you have to
give them the feeling that they can talk
to us because if you remember, in the first
few months, the Russians were pushing
the message that Zelensky's government
was illegitimate, that it was after the Maidan
and the revolution and so on. And after the second session
it seems Putin came out on TV and
said that we recognize Zelensky's government
as legitimate and we will negotiate with it
so this phase was
successful. Yeah, this was the first goal
and the second goal was to buy time. So, we
were basically a smokescreen
for the Armed Forces of Ukraine. We
engaged in long discussions with them
sometimes dragging out the time, sometimes
shortening it, giving them a sense
that they were winning in
the negotiations. So, it was a tactical
game
, constantly consulting with the Armed Forces of Ukraine
about their plans and where they were going
and how. Yeah, who
there it is often a question it is honestly there
there was no time when this Lukashenko
called him and said you need to go tomorrow to
you have no time to think and sit
to do some castings there and so on Well
I said I will go right away well Reznikov
It was necessary to take because the Ministry
of Defense was nearby he says I too
will go he was By the way he was
there in Belarus something he says I know
Gryzlova this former ambassador well
and Makay knew the Minister
of Foreign Affairs Well he
could also suggest something well Kuleba was already
in Ukraine Yes He has already returned but
he has not left yet has not returned from the US
he has not returned yet Yes and that's why they took took
Tachytsky from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Yeah he was very
important to us
he played the role of a Bandera supporter that
the Russians react very strongly to Well he stood there
and gave such speeches that they were pale
Yeah Well here
Zgura gave us a person until then
remember this scandalous one Yeah they
shot him they shot him yes And who else was there I don't remember anymore there were
seven of us
and from their side there
were
30 or 40 people on
there were people behind the carriages
who write these psychological portraits
so when you talk at the table
there's a special person behind who does
a psychological portrait that tells where
you tell the truth and where you lie
what things you react to emotionally
yes, I read such portraits later
actually, we have the same thing, we didn't take anyone
because I didn't know such a thing existed at all
the possibility option, yes, actually very
accurate portraits, we made them
based on video recordings, others, well, their
portraits
very-very accurate portraits, cool
actually, it's a profession, people who
are well prepared, well, they
are very well prepared, honestly
they, at first, somehow, when we were there, we
were not formally, specifically, and that's why I
broke their templates, yeah, well, I used swear words
and said let's turn off the cameras, let's just
talk, communicate, and so on
well, I, at first, you know, they
were a bit nervous and diplomatic
school, they reacted very nervously
then I taught them how to use Zoom, well
so they wouldn't have to travel so much, yeah, well, I said
let's talk for 3
hours or two
We are coming to you for 48 hours and then
back for 48, it doesn't work like that. Let's
stick to Zoom. They initially said it was
American software and they didn't trust it, so
they provided some kind of
Russian software that broke in the second
minute and then they went back to Zoom. Were
you on the phone with Kyiv or something? Yes, on
WhatsApp, which was stuck in a complete deadlock and
Russians, Belarusians, so you included
WhatsApp here, right? I'm saying I'll leave
now, I'll talk and leave
and we also need to talk to them
they went somewhere to the residence, bro
they took this conductor there
and such
and other things, you know
in the X century and
19th century, something like that
I see. What were they willing to do if
to leave all these things there
we need to understand that they were willing
to do a lot of things in words, but we
understood that each side has
its own game, so all this game directly
depended on successes or failures on the
front. Well, in words, they said that
everything, let's go home, where
you were, there, 1
2T 45, take it all and then in detail
we will stand until you accept everything. Because
we can, we understand how you act, you
will sign something, then we will leave
you will say that it is a disgraceful matter and you will do nothing
and they always blamed you for not fulfilling
this Minsk agreement, that you don't fulfill it
signed, ratified, uh-huh, and don't
fulfill it, despite the presence of
international guarantees, it doesn't work
only when tanks are standing under the parliament
conditionally
Well, look, Putin showed
a document and for the result of the negotiations with the Belarusian
African delegation, he demonstrated this
where and how. He claims
a drafted peace agreement with
Ukraine and supposedly this document was
initialled in
Istanbul. This document was called an agreement
on permanent neutrality of Ukraine and
security guarantees. Putin said that there were
18 articles and as he said, I quote
everything is prescribed from combat equipment to
the personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. He said that there is a signature of the
head of the delegation. So Putin claimed, why
didn't he make this document public? You
paid attention. What do you think
why, if he had a document, he would
have made it public? The goal
of the Ukrainian
delegation was to delay the process, the goal
of the Russian delegation was the goal
of the Russian delegation, in my opinion, was
to show that they really, really almost until
the end hoped that they would
pressure us to sign the agreement and
take neutrality. This was the biggest thing for them, for them to
be ready to end
the war. If we
let's take Finland as an example, they once had
neutrality and made a commitment that they would not
join NATO, except for one
key point, which was
the only important point. Everything else was
cosmetic political
adjustments, like
denazification of the Russian-speaking population and
blah blah blah. Why did Ukraine not agree
point? Well, first of all, in order to agree
to this
point, we would have to change
the Constitution. Secondly, there is no trust and there
was no trust that the Russians would do
it. This could only be done if there were
security guarantees. We couldn't just
sign something and then everyone would have a breather
and then they would come back more prepared
because they actually entered
unprepared, yes, to such resistance. Therefore, we could only work when there was
a hundred percent certainty that it would not
happen again. And there is no such certainty
anymore. Moreover, when we returned from
Istanbul, Boris Johnson came to Kyiv
and said that we would not
sign anything with them at all and let's just
fight. Am I understanding correctly that
Boris Johnson's visit was like a
fire truck that flew in
already at that time?
when I say Yes, it's not from myself
I say it on behalf of those people who are currently
opposing the political power in Ukraine from
internal people who said that you could
have already signed these treacherous
agreements on the neutral status of
Ukraine, but as soon as Johnson arrived, he
said no agreements at all
that's what only people who
want to twist any event there say
political s
in order for us to be able to sign, watch
No, I couldn't sign it, nor any
member of the delegation, we don't
even have the legal right to sign anything
correctly. So this is only
theoretically possible if there was a
meeting between Zelensky and Putin, theoretically
sign something afterwards. This would have to be
ratified in parliament, so when
people say they only say it to
an unprepared reader or viewer or
listener, how much this process was influenced by
Belarus and Istanbul was influenced by
Washington, London, Warsaw, not at all
controlled by Berlin, not controlled at all, but
by agreement, so they understood that we
had a group immediately created a group
of advisers from these countries, our
partners, but we gave them information
in a measured way from the point of view of the law, a little
informational, so that it would not
pour out, you saw that
everything went discreetly, because we
were just measuring it, so they knew everything
especially when we were drafting
some documents, they had access to all
documents. And we consulted with them, of course, because we
understood that we couldn't win the war
ourselves, so we definitely need them.
they were happy to discuss this issue with us
and actually advised us not to go
with any
ephemeral security guarantees
that were impossible to give at that time
they say it's just an attempt to somehow
claim that we
successfully accomplished it. I believe that if on a
ten-point scale, we
definitely succeeded. We made it so
that they relaxed a bit and then everything shifted
completely towards the military direction. Have you ever
thought that all of this could already
belong to someone else
no, I wasn't there. No, there were two days when they
said that they had already started blocking the Odessa highway
I went home for the first time
I live on the Odessa highway, so I went to see if the Russians would come
home to see if there was anything there
some documents, I took out some permits
for weapons, there was something there and that's it
I went there once and then I really
believed that the city would be surrounded. So
when did you enter? On the 23rd, entered on the 24th
in the morning, that's when the rockets came. So you
went to the office and that was it, you didn't come back
[music]
did you feel that it was the most
protected place there?
No, it's somehow not the most
I planned to go there, but then we couldn't
As soon as the opportunity arose
I found out that it was already
a very depressing situation
There was no electricity and
when someone turned on the lights
your day started
if they turned it off, your day ended
Then we went to Belarus
I remember that his security guard
told us not to eat anything
But we were eating all day
When we arrived, we had some
rooms assigned to us
I opened the fridge and there was some
sausage and other things
I tried everything and ate everything
He watched me and endured
until the border, until the very border
I said I would eat for everyone if needed
Don't mention the bad luck
As they say
when the Americans realized that there were UFOs and
guerrilla warfare in Ukraine, it won't be
a full-scale battle started
when they realized they were
joining, I think on the fourth day
there was a battle at the Hostomel airport
Yeah, those orcs were crawling there
So, it was a wave, wave, wave, wave, very
I understand all the allies were waiting to see if we
would endure because it was essentially a
battle for capturing Kyiv so that Kyiv would be
captured, then they would proceed with their
scenario that was given to them by all the puppets
meaning they had an analytical center and everyone gave
them one scenario, not two or three, just one
scenario, they enter and capture Kyiv
overthrow the government, we retreat and somewhere
there we consolidate and establish ourselves
in western Ukraine, we have a backup
some rate and we say we have a legitimate
Venezuelan parliament conditionally there
some scenario, yes, and there is its own
authority declared by Russia and so we somehow
politically fight there later
there was a scenario that was the only one in all
analytical centers, no one even
considered the likelihood that it would be like
it turned out. Luckily
yeah, what you say, what the partners
supplied us today, what is needed
the day before yesterday is the laying of this gap on
what Russia did not do, not
cross or to agree with Russia after all
so that it doesn't get worse. Is it something
else? I think the main problem is that we have with
the war, with the fact that there is no understanding
what to do with Russia, which
suffered
a defeat. I met with many people
senators, you said that
Russia suffered
a defeat. Russia suffered a defeat. They don't
understand what to do with Russia, which if
it suffers a defeat. Yeah, so for them
it's not yet affected, well, in Ukraine, the operation
War in Ukraine, they believe that we won
the war for independence, of course,
the war for territorial integrity continues.
But they understand that Russia is not the one
fighting on foreign territory, so
they don't have any internal problems and they
say that if Russia suffers a very
big defeat in Ukraine, it will provoke
some unclear movements and nobody knows
where it will end up and in whose hands
this red button will be, whether Russia
will remain as a territory or it will
start to fall apart and all this
scares them so much that they
live internally according to the scenario of not letting
Ukraine
lose, but at the same time not letting Russia
fall apart and that's why
we are not satisfied with this
situation in Ukraine, you understand, and that's why
I think
politically such things happen that when
we need attacks, we get them
In a year, with big big battles at all levels. So
we convince you that there is also
a heterogeneous position there. There are people
who are more radical and they say that Putin
will never use any red buttons
in any case because he wants to live, so let's just
strengthen Ukraine as it should be and
in fact,
there are
many Republicans.
such not those not Trumpists And others
Republicans who are near Da And there are many
moderate ones who say Let's already
do something so that Ukraine achieves its
goals but not to anger Russia
so that there is no Third
World War So we need to change our
strategy what we started this year
to actively develop our own sector
of weapons in order to ask less and do more
David articles amaze me
that come out One after another everything started
with The
Times and there
Shuster wrote such things and he
referred to it as supposedly quotes
from the president on the off-record with the hosts
of the nationwide telethon
the president said that he did not
say that and it was an article not from his
words and he means it was presented like
that we have in your and our camp
there is one person who cannot be said anything about
and this means the real state of war is
the president he doesn't want to hear about
a ceasefire he doesn't want to hear about
what
is a positional deadlock then an article comes out
by the head of the V where he also says
that the war has turned into a positional war and so on
the whole world has twisted his words and
called it a positional deadlock and
a positional impasse today means
I was stunned by the article forріanфрс that
you sent to me before our interview and
attempts to insert Ukraine into
the negotiations and propose to Russia
to discuss consolidating the current status quo
which exists today. And
before that, I will remind you
There was an article in which Fograsmusen
proposed to join NATO with one foot
on the territory that means free
independent and then supposedly
another territory will join
according to the model of FRG and GDR or
the existence of Ukraine as
the existence of two Koreas and it is evident
that something is being planned for Ukraine, it is evident that these camps
are exhausted and exhausted In a defensive
sense and even in an intellectual
sense because no
one knows what to do next
or how
often How often have you come in with the words that in
the United States You received in that
number and a cold shower, it concerned
it concerned the fact that on Vyu It
concerned the fact that the United States for
them the conflict in Israel is much closer
we were at the reception of Washington
10 million
country can reduce the war to zero
war in Ukraine, I don't think it can be reduced to zero
just need to understand
that well, the security sector will be taken care of
in the United States, it is understandable and
the interests of
the United States
for them
Israel is a very big
story. They have done
a lot of
Jewish
lobbying in all decision-making centers at
all levels in the United States. And now
if you walk through Congress, you will see
congressmen's walls at the entrance. Previously, it always said "I Stand with Ukraine". But now
it says "I Stand with
you were at a reception with the Rebbe. I was at
a reception with the Rebbe, and almost
senators and congressmen were there, and so on
because for
them, showing solidarity with the people of
Israel is much more important from a
local politics perspective. They are still
politicians. They are elected by
Americans, for Americans. This
Israeli history is much closer to
three times closer than
Ukrainian history. This doesn't mean that they
are abandoning or leaving
Ukraine alone, and so on. It's just that they need to
understand that in terms of prioritization and values, this is number one for them. And when it becomes more heated, we
automatically become more
distant. Well, this needs to be understood, and we shouldn't
get offended. No one is
to
blame for
this. Well,
that's right.
Well, we mean that Americans
We don't blame anyone, but already
if you go back to
the Budapest Memorandum. We
talked about the dismantled planes
and the confiscated missiles. This is what we
agreed on, someone made a decision in
Ukraine. Yesterday I spoke to someone who
mentioned the words of the late president
Kuchma, who was convinced that if we
didn't give up the missiles and nuclear weapons, then
Chechnya would not be in Chechnya, but with us in
Ukraine, and then Russia would follow. After
the late president, there were certain
grounds for this. The seat provides a
point of view, well, I can't not
say what it was like at that time, when people, well, about
what they
I can tell you about recent times, in 2015
the war
began, not full-scale, but a war, and in
the Ministry of Defense, I was the head
of the volunteer council in the Ministry of Defense, I
remember and I was the Deputy Minister
of Defense under Poltorak. General
Pavlovsky, and we had a signed
agreement, a long-term agreement for
the disposal of ammunition with NATO. We
paid the Pavlograd Chemical
Plant for it.
each destroyed from our warehouses ammunition
non-conventional non-conventional
how much is 2 euros or 3 euros something like that
Well funny money alegugu Well and she
worked and NATO put a lot of pressure on us
to continue this NATO program and
General Pavlovsky said fire
me what do you want to do I won't
do it uh-huh and now if you see how
our drones fly at night and drop
such small bombs
from cassette ammunition, that's it, uh-huh, and
someone then had to say sorry for the eggs
NATO said no and did not do that, and someone did not have
and he explained that there could have been a mistake, and
they took our weapons, they took
our weapons, look, I'll tell you about it
that a person should always take care of
national interests first and then
partners, you need to talk to your partner
we are doing a lot of things now that
they tell us, not everything is possible, but
when you have logic and you explain
and show, tell me, there is nothing to hide
look, we have it, yes, yes, yes, and they
say yes, let's do it later, they
try to pressure us because they have
their own interests, and we just need not
to create expectations in the country that someone
is to blame, no one is to blame, Ukraine is
responsible for itself, right, and we will, well
fight ourselves, and what to fight with, well
we need to do what we are doing
unfortunately, it really saddens me when I read on Facebook these critics who
say there is nothing, no ammunition factory
there is nothing, there
is a lot of things
classified and just want to raise
that Facebooker give him access to
state secrets so that he reports how
we report on every trip where you met
and went, took on all
obligations to take him to the factories or
should we show locations in Facebook
factories that were built during this
war, there are things I can't say
names Well, for example, things that
were not at all and now there are hundreds of thousands And
by the end of the year there will be millions and this is
local production Well, this needs to be somehow
respected, you just can't talk about it and
to me always, you know, just sitting like
a dog. When they kill you, they put
on your head. We don't have it. You know what there is, but you can't
talk about
it. A lot. I think we need a lot
more and more. They won't dress one
argument that should have been said earlier, they will say
yes. But they will still say from the
point of view of logic and 150 million against 30
million countries and their military-industrial complex and Ukraine's military-industrial complex, they will
still present you with this calculation
obviously, you and our partners
present this calculation and then
write "for" and "against" in such articles, saying
sit down at the negotiating table in the fourth
paragraph they say, "And if Russia doesn't sit down
to sit at the negotiating table because it is not beneficial for her
to sit at the negotiating table now, then
Ukraine will show the whole world that Russia
did not want to sit at the negotiating table and this
will give partners the option to support
Ukraine even more. If you have read this
article to the end, see my understanding
and skills. Russia will immediately sit at the
negotiating table as soon as we call them
to sit. The next day, they will form
a delegation and will already be sitting and
saying that Ukraine is not
coming, not because it is beneficial or
not beneficial to them, but because they clearly understand
that as soon as the news appears that Ukraine
has sat at the negotiating table, all supplies
that are already delayed due to
objective circumstances will be further delayed due to
subjective circumstances. They
dream that we will call them to sit at
the negotiating table because it is more beneficial
for them than for us. We just need to
perceive this with a cool head. And regarding
the fact that they have more mobile resources
than us, we do face significant challenges
in the country that no one is talking about
right now because it is not popular. For example, in
the Committee on National Security and Defense, we
have many people in a closed regime
there, we call the General Staff, there are many people.
which all sectors of national security and well, we hear
information, there are several discussions in
the committee that will eventually
come out into society. Discussion number
one, why are the losses still classified?
Our colleagues say that
we believe that they should
be declassified because for two years
people, citizens of Ukraine, are dying
they should know how many of these citizens. I don't
know, it's the general staff. Well, they classify and
declassify, but I don't know what
correct Honestly, the discussion is such
there is a second discussion, a million people are under
fire, half a million of them are fighting, 250
000 are fighting on
the front line with
them Almost 100% without
rotation, a person can fight for two years without
rotation, let's do something about it
no one is doing anything, do something
it seems that the war will end tomorrow, but
that's not the case, we have no signal that
it's ending, what should we do
next, the third question, which is very
hot in the committee, how many more people will be mobilized
there is a mobilization resource, it is
known if we do rotation, we need to
mobilize another half of the people in the country
if we don't do it, they suffer
What to do, at least a short
plan, even short-term, for a year, give some
vision to the military leadership, they say
give a vision, there is no vision
we just live as we lived and it doesn't
suit us because it's also about costs, we understand
that we need to prepare for the fact that in
the next year there will be electoral
cycles in the European Union, in Europe, in many
European countries, in the United States
and this will definitely cause at least some disruptions
in funding. And maybe even loss of
some sources of funding need to be
relied on their own resources
if we take the current war plan by the way
well, we have been waiting for the committee for a long time
I say Look Well, we are not military, we are
civilian democratic oversight
oversight that should be part of the war plan for you
the general staff must develop the planning
Well, I don't know, Zaluzhny whispered there, all
military leaders I'm not talking about
personalities now, I'm talking about institutions
the institution says I want to fight next
year, so I need so many people, well
so many people, I need to let go
because they have been fighting so much that they can't
and let's say I need so much
money and you don't have this plan and
no one has such a plan in the country
actually, yesterday we heard a statement that
says she met with
congressmen and they
demand a plan, plan, plan, and plan again, and
if there is no such plan, then we will suffer internally and
externally we will look like people who
just want, as they say, a never-ending war, a war that will never
end None of them wants a never-ending war
they want to have some kind of vision Well, I think we also have
internal
vision
People also want to have a vision, but we have
such big things that are also unpopular
to say, but sooner or later we will
have to do it, it's a big corruption
in the army, there are millions of people
from all over the country who
came there, it's fuel manipulation
with money and so on
Well, we changed the law in the committee, 27
000 people a year were recognized as
limited outside the staff, they were
getting 800 UAH per month and they can't
return home and serve, and 800
UAH per month, you understand, it's just
slavery, 22 000
people, for example, do we need to
demobilize people who have cancer because
now there are many people with cancer in
the army. I believe that's what we're preparing
a complex, we have a lot of
internal contradictions about this. Well, regarding
these things, for example, a person who
was captured didn't surrender herself. There is
verification and then we
exchanged her and she was also mobilized. Should
we give her permission to
demobilize? I believe we need to
what the military-political
leadership leans towards,
to fight or to accept
proposals that are now being discussed from different angles
but are being written about in the Western
press, look now, I think that all
the leadership of Ukraine, military and political, and
military, about the fact that
we should fight. Why? Because we cannot
sit down at the negotiating table, we have a
very bad negotiating position. What will
we do now, sit where we are
let's just finish. Well, you
do you think that Ukrainian society
will accept I generally believe that if not
the war ended except for a complete Victory
Yeah everything else has to go through
a referendum because I'm not I'm sure not
I don't know if it can be organic you know
the ending like in Korea where nothing was
signed Yeah then maybe if
something someone will sign Well I don't and this
then it will need to be ratified in
parliament well parliament just well one
kill each other there will be very polar views and
such things I think it's just necessary
to do through a referendum Because when the people
say that it's necessary Yes then I will vote not
well without looking I just my opinion far away
I will put it and I will do as the People said
and if the deputies say it
decide Well I don't I don't feel in myself
the strength to decide let alone someone
agitate for something because this is a question of each
citizen individual I don't understand how it can be
will be done Honestly speaking
that
Zelensky He said he was preparing
some or preparing some state
coup and he was provided with data
intelligence also there were hearings at
the committee operation that's
what the Russians called it
because many people for some reason got offended by Maidan
3 Well, the Russians simply called it
quoted, well, as it is mentioned
Maidan 3 supposedly
the idea is to provoke a strong conflict
among everyone, well, historically
we have all the conditions for it, we
always professionally argue, I call it the 18th
year of the last century, yes, Skoropadsky
Petliura Hrushevsky Vynnychenko, and it's very
easy, and that's why it's very important now
to communicate with everyone and do everything
so that we have such exercise dialogues
Jean Monnet when all the heads of factions
and we sit in an off-record mode for
the facilitation of the former head of
the European Parliament, Pat Cox, we did it
last week and we
signed all that we are all against
having elections until the end of the war. Yes
he promoted it. I think it's necessary. Well
to convey to everyone so that everyone finally
calms down and focuses
because we need to win, yes, and everything
we have recorded it in writing
as a memorandum among all political forces
I think it's important and for all people
to stop, especially in the regions, it's sensitive
And I really, you know, well, we have different regions
living differently, hypothetical Uzhhorod
conditional Lviv and conditional Mykolaiv or
Kherson are different regions from the point of view
of the present. And when they hear somewhere
that there are elections there, someone is preparing here
they say what elections, here the hail is flying
something else is flying, S-300, what elections are you talking about
they have completely lost their minds and something
needs to be answered. But there is nothing to answer because
these are rumors and the more you deny the rumors
the more they believe that you
are intentionally doing it to
relax them so that they are not
prepared for these
elections. There will definitely be no elections in
the next year. Let's talk about
at least for that planning period
What we more or less understand is that
there will be no elections and we need to
continue to prepare, we need to
focus on the diplomatic
front because we will face challenges
there no less than on the military
front. It has started and it's
very scary or very unpredictable
unpredictable. I believe that we should look
at it right now. Well, I see, I am the head of the friendship group
of the Ukrainian parliament and
the American Congress and I communicate a lot with
them, there are positions among the Republicans
that we really like.
and this is not
individual positions, just this wing
of trampists, they really try there
you know, the office of simple solutions, let's
finish quickly, let's talk about other things
it won't work like that, well, I think
there is still a very
strong institutional state, the United States has a lot
of checks and balances, what they call, yes, there
So there, it's not possible
even Trump is afraid to do that
I will tell you, in NATO they are afraid that Trump
will come and say that simply that the United
States are leaving NATO and that means
the end of NATO practically. Well, there are
such concerns. So, it's not all
Ukraine-centric, these are global issues that
Ukraine is now a very influential
player and I have a few questions
and I would like to ask them to you in a few
months before the full-scale war meeting
with the oligarch Firtash
Yes, you were discussing the escalation with
Russia in general, I had very simple
questions. We
were taking titanium
enterprises, he captured a lot of them
I tried to explain to him that he needs to
return them, it was a very simple conversation
one-sided, almost. Then everything that
happened after that, you see, everyone
took it back, nationalized it, we are taking
titanium, imposed sectoral sanctions
well, I'm returning you to the oligarchs
now, if you haven't noticed. Well, I
don't consider him an oligarch anymore after
what we did to him. I don't think he's an oligarch
well, he's a wealthy person with
many international problems, legally. So,
you are the one
the duke who came from the king and handed
him a black mark honestly not from the king
He came from Rustem Merova then
he managed the state property fund And he then And I
talked to E. Firtash's
structures because in Mykolaiv They
have a big port it's a big taxpayer
so I had an acquaintance and
he tells me And can you talk
about it I say there's no problem at all I
didn't hide it in any way when well
I I I basically said that I
met I came and said 1 2T Well
there such
one-sided it didn't work out I actually
thought it would work out that he would just be a little
smarter
talk about what literally happened there in
a week before the full-scale
war one Oligarch insured his
factory and then the city where this factory stood
was destroyed by the Russians and for years
so this same Oligarch said that we need to talk to the bald devil just to avoid
war and then the city from which he
left was occupied by separatists
who received weapons there in
bathhouses or somewhere else
and then he practically surrendered the city he was in charge of which
was the king of
that city And for
A few months ago, this same Oligarch invited
one mayor, one TV presenter, and one
member of parliament to Vilnius, where they
celebrated the birthday of I.
He had a conversation with those people, and then
the president, at a press conference, mentioned that
there were plans for a coup and war.
Then there was a situation with power outages
that you may remember, which were practiced in
Kyiv region, when one Oligarch tried to prove that
he had power and he, so to speak, dictated to
the state and the president, Zelensky, about his position.
Now, YouTube channels talk about the need for elections
and constantly compare Zelensky with Zaluzhny
and Zelensky says that it's not that simple and
the political situation is becoming more tense.
It's like in a Soviet song, where
I just want to sing, "Tell me his name, this is
all one chain."
Look, this is how our country works, when
as soon as someone starts something, the number of people
joining in,
for
their
own
reasons, is
very
high.
or how many people do we have now
who believe that we need to have elections as soon as possible
there are many people who
want this government to leave or be reduced
its influence or be balanced or
they themselves want to come to power, I just
one thing is unclear, I believe that we need
openly, well, now is the time during
war people need to be more open from
point of view
To me, it seems that people do not perceive the essence of my communication.
I think they do not understand these games.
I believe it is necessary to openly
say it. For example, if someone from
the military wants to go into politics, they should
be able to do so. It is normal because
according to the Constitution, everyone has the right
to run for office if they meet the criteria.
To me, this is normal. I believe that the next
parliament will have many military personnel or
former military personnel, or even volunteers.
Just like in 2014. However, those who predict
its life say that it will be short-lived
because there will be constant conflicts.
I see how the parliament works from the inside
and such parties will immediately break apart
as soon as a controversial law is passed.
I see it. They all believe that you are talking about direct
communication. Who is this person who
gave up their channel half a year before the war
and went to regulate things with President Zelensky?
I know that he will not go into politics.
Well,
now
it's
different.
people somehow this parliament
is not really because we are special
it's just that it was a historical time
first we lifted immunity and we
actually read there about that deputy
he was arrested there accusing him
of things that were impossible before
SAP and VAX were established as an
anti-corruption infrastructure and it
really works as a separate branch It
doesn't agree with anyone about anything
well when it was in the news the Americans
were shocked When I said that we
found out in the news that the head of the Supreme Court
was arrested they say it's impossible you
are just hiding and lying they say
that in the United States it wouldn't be like that I
would punish as it would be in the United States they
say they would go to the president and lay
it down he would say don't tarnish the image
of the institution he would summon this head
Knyazev and say you have one hour and
then leave so as not to cast a shadow on the institution
well we haven't reached that yet
we still have to live through our democracy
so now we have a completely different reality
and that's why no one will rush to the parliament anymore
most of the people who are in the parliament now
will not go there voluntarily they just won't go why
because there's nothing to do there
So if you want to work for the benefit
of the state and pass laws because many
people want executive power, they say
there is a gap between what you
have passed as a law and when it
starts working and you will see it
there in a few years. Not everyone
has this patience, they want
to do something immediately and see
instant results. Many businessmen
who are now in parliament, they used
to have immunity, they simply won't
go to parliament anymore. We have
made a law on life imprisonment, which
is essentially a financial
monitoring and declaration control
the strictest in the world. Well, you
also gave me a wave, it seems to me
that you have just humiliated yourself. Well, they
demanded that it be life imprisonment, it
doesn't sound like life imprisonment, but in fact it is
life imprisonment, it says that you have three years and
after a year, after another year
a risk-oriented approach. I ask, I ask
Roxalana Pidlasa, we have a head
of the budget committee, a very professional
person, young, with a career ahead. I say
Roxalana, so you have already passed it.
Read the law on what is risk-oriented
approach. Will you be risk-oriented?
In 10 years, she reads And it says
that depending on how a person
interacted with public
financial management, she became the head of the budget
committee. And in 50 years, her children and grandchildren will
be bothering her because she
managed public finances.
So please, 100 500 checks.
And before the war, the TV presenter
had such a remote discussion with the president.
He said to Zelensky it was impressive
it was disgraceful such a disgraceful episode
when he said they will gather
five oligarchs on some island
they will drink well
and you will disappear they will remove you
these oligarchs And you say well this person
will no longer have an influence And what about
buying cool mansions in London well how
will a businessman influence his business
Maybe there will be some regulations in his
business but he won't play politics that's my
well that's my personal opinion there is no
game in it anymore before it was
some kind of confrontation between one and
another if one has a faction the other should
also have a faction so when there are mouths
of experts TV presenters and MPs
who previously led the presidential
campaign talking about the fact that
the President must go He must fulfill his
promise He said he will go and he
must go after a five-year
term and go quickly and from the
first when his term ends
they will say to him that you are
illegitimate I want to wait until
the first illegitimate they will say no
I don't think I
will say that and more than that I
By the way, in order for Russians not to
say that, we need to submit a request to
the Constitutional Court from the
members of parliament, for example, regarding this
issue, so that they can provide clarification and
put an end to all manipulations
because, you know, we have all these
armchair experts, every day a new
topic, which they will all be experts on
the Constitution of Ukraine and its interpretation
in March. We just need an institution for this
and let it provide a reasoned answer as to what
to do. As they explain to us now, this is not
a decision of the Constitutional Court in the form
of consultation, it is the same provision
in a different section of the Constitution
that is still in effect until a new one is adopted
and the judicial branch of power is independent
well, the Constitutional Court, after that and that
court, which restores
and says what
President Zelensky was wrong when he
dismissed Tupitsky, that's what it's about
independence, we understand that
it's just corporate solidarity, the courts
are corporately not going to
turn President Zelensky's skin inside out
Watch, we don't have any other
watch, we are doing By the way, a reform
European Union insists that we provide
a new selection process for judges there
Constitutional Court, we have already accepted
there seems to be a separate law that
allows the process to start directly
and we will have a normal constitutional
court. I generally believe that what we
started to do with judicial reform
unfortunately, it takes a long time, it annoys many people
first of all, people on the streets, but still
in three years we will reboot the entire
judicial branch of power properly
through international competitions, through verification
of integrity and it will be good. That's what I will
tell my children. If we go back to the episode
on the direct channel in 2019, you said
about Kolomoisky prophetic words, you will
see my connections with Kolomoisky from
my point of view, how I will act - he said
to you, you reminded him of the situation with your mother
as a teacher, in this interview you said
that she was grading so that no one would think
that she was giving me any privileges. But you
were in the same school, you studied, she
taught.
and you said that I think that such
attitude will be towards Zelensky from
Kolomoisky why the president started with
an oligarch who supported him in the elections
Well, because it seems to me that if you
want to show that
you
don't want any specific message, then
first of all, they will ask you, "And what about
him?" So he is the first one, he should
understand from the very first day how you
think we
will see through n with Kolomoisky
Ahmetov and so on, all
oligarchs I don't know if they will be
there is no such prison at all Honestly
speaking, the task of such a task is never
when we say deoligarchization it does not mean
to put oligarchs in prison it means
to stop the influence of oligarchs on politics
let them be big
businessmen Honestly speaking As a former
businessman myself, I want us to have a force
there was such a thick Book so that we could have
as many rich
people as possible, we have such a discussion in
society that if you are rich you are a bad
person This is not about oligarchs, even just
about rich people, everyone says that they are all
bad people I don't understand why
at all Communist psychology a little bit
we need to change this I want people like
Nova Poshta, Rozetka, these new
businessmen of the new generation to be
Well, I don't know, not dozens, actually very
few businessmen and this war does not
contribute at all They want to build something there
abroad and then
just go abroad I want everyone to
come back home and create
additional value here otherwise we don't have
look at one question - it's war and the other
question is what will happen after the war When it will be
million
veterans no one is talking about it now
only
whispering and we can see the experience
of all other countries where these figures were not
millions but just hundreds of thousands and
how many years decades With this, we
had to work And that's why we need to talk about it
at least Well, I don't know, the first and the third
question that personally bothers me a lot
the worst demographic situation
in
the world you understand that countries
prosper only those who
have positive dynamics with
population only such and we need to work on this
too I worked with six children
maybe I can have one or two more not everyone
has to work not everyone
[laughter]
to work the last obvious question
that is now on the lips of everyone watching
this
interview How will it end? How will it end when
it ends? I don't know what scenario
is watching here it's not even up to
us anymore and it only depends on the aggressor
now the situation is such that it depends on
many stakeholders and it has to somehow
end
to synchronize and it's difficult, I just want
to call out to everyone who
is watching us, they need to see
you know what Americans really like
they have all sorts of quarrels internally
when they come to us and not
just for us, but simply go abroad
to other countries. They always say a lot
of respect to the president there, if they
are Republicans. It doesn't matter, they
only care about their country being good. But
unfortunately, we don't have such a tradition yet
our officials go abroad, the opposition
tells them stories. And all of this is always
taken, then our enemies take
and use it against us. So, this is the tradition
that we need, we need to talk about it
in these dialogues. I think that we need
to develop such a tradition that when
we go abroad, we are all together
however, the team that came back can
fight each other here, but abroad we are
all one team called Ukraine
to be one team, well, partially. I think that
the Russians should be under the boot, yes, I
believe that honestly. I remember
the first year of the war and now it's
different years of the war, it's different from the first year
we were all united like never before and
even their intelligence, we were just
they intercept they say there is no gap where
you can hide sincerely they were yes then sincere
and yeah now it's not like that and there will be more
accumulating fatigue some quarrels there and
so on and so forth you just need By the way, I can
say that the President he understood that
people there are tired And in his team
he made such unions there too In our
inside too everything is not homogeneous and he said that
he looks Well, I won't Well, I don't have time
to figure out Who is right and who is wrong
just go all
who have some internal intrigues
he said so. And well, it was
a very open and normal conversation and
everyone there, well, everyone liked it, yeah, how
to scale it to the whole country, I don't know, he
is lucky, yeah, you see, I think
that with COVID we already didn't know what
to do, remember how it was, yeah, I remember that we
laugh now, yeah, I remember that we
on the second day of the war, somehow I just remembered
about COVID and everyone says, oh, they recovered
from COVID in one day, when you look at
people, do you have faith that we
after the war, regardless of the outcome, will
have, I mean, how many losses there will be
how much grief there will be when the
realization comes of how many we lost, that these
people, they will
remain the only
ones, 100%. I
am sure, oh, you see, now there is a wedding, war, and everything doesn't stop because
people still build their lives and
want to build them in Ukraine, we communicate a lot
with diasporas abroad and well
half of the people, at least, definitely want
to come back home, the other half already
have children
who go to
school, somehow they, well
they set up then their children someone
will return anyway I'm sure everything
still your native she Well nothing can
replace just well around you no matter
what kind of comfortable conditions there
are and so on we can reconcile the Donbas
which was not with us for nine
years it will be difficult We even have
internal affairs without Donbas For example
we once under the previous president
adopted a language law and now with it
there are many issues from the point of view
of European integration Hungary Romania
minorities they are the first European Union
who will be Yes the European Union will basically
force us well
force us to learn to live a little
tolerantly Because in many things we
do not have a tolerant policy and we
will need to look for some immigration force
where we will take people from Ukraine to
build more and also
we need to become more tolerant but young people
they are not very tolerant actually they are very
intolerant you know
I haven't seen such views among the youth
like saying there that there
are no Indians we don't need them or something like that
they
more such adults they are less
tolerant I think this
globalization it somehow
works Thank you for this shooting Thank you
good sign that it's ending
still our future Let's
congratulate the young ones now let's wait for
their kiss and we can shout
from and we will
shout Bitter bitter bitter bitter
bitter Oh
you see thank you thank you
[music]
congratulations