Selenskyj bei 60 Minutes

18. September 2023

“Tonight, the pre­si­dent of Ukrai­ne tells 60 Minu­tes about his despe­ra­te fight with rus­sia, pre­ven­ting World War III, and why his peop­le who have lost so much, will never - deal with Putin.”

Selen­skyj: “Its a dif­fi­cult job, you under­stand me right? Giving awards to peop­le who­se faces show their who­le world has collapsed?”

Mode­ra­tor: “Tonight Scott Pel­ley reports from Ukrai­ne, whe­re he sat down with pre­si­dent Vlo­di­mir Selen­skyj in the capi­tol Kiev.”

Scott Pel­ley: We met Pre­si­dent Selen­skyj as he pre­pa­red to depart Kiev for the United Sta­tes, this week he will speak at the UN and meet Pre­si­dent Biden. It is a cri­ti­cal time. US offi­cials tell us, that over near­ly 600 days, almost half a mil­li­on tro­ops have been kil­led or woun­ded. Both sides, all­tog­e­ther. Part of the cost, so far - of Vla­di­mir Putins unpro­vo­ked inva­si­on. We spo­ke to Selen­skyj. On Thurs­day he told us, that his peop­le are dying every day, to pre­vent World War Three. 

Scott Pel­ley being con­cer­ned about World War III:
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We are defen­ding the values of the who­le world, Selen­skyj said, and the­se are ukrai­ni­an peop­le who are paying the hig­hest pri­ce. We are tru­ly figh­t­ing for our free­dom. We are dying. We are not fic­tion, we are not a book. We are figh­t­ing for real.

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With a nuclear sta­te that threa­tens to des­troy the world.”

Scott Pel­ley: “The United Sta­tes has con­tri­bu­t­ed about 70 Bil­li­on Dol­lars to your war effort [see: CFR: click] and I won­der if you expect that level of sup­port to continue.”

Selen­skyj: “The United Sta­tes of Ame­ri­ca is sup­por­ting the Ukrai­ne finan­cial­ly and I’m great­ful for this. I just think they are not sup­por­ting only Ukrai­ne alo­ne. If Ukrai­ne falls, Putin will surely go fur­ther. What will the United Sta­tes of Ame­ri­ca do, when Putin reaches the bal­tic sta­tes. when he reaches the polish bor­der? He will. This is a lot of money, we have a lot of gra­ti­tu­de, what else must Ukrai­ne do for ever­yo­ne to mea­su­re our huge gra­ti­tu­de? We are dying in this war. Look, if Ukrai­ne falls, what will hap­pen in ten years, just think about it if the rus­si­ans reach Poland -”

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whats next? A third world war?”

Scott Pel­ley: “What will it take? Ano­t­her 70 billion?”

Selen­skyj: “I don’t have an ans­wer. The who­le world has to deci­de whe­ther we want to stop Putin, or whe­ther we want to start the begin­ning of a world war. We cant chan­ge Putin. Rus­si­an socie­ty has lost the respect of the world! They elec­ted him, then reelec­ted him and rai­sed a second Hitler. -

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THEY did this.

We can not go back in time! But we can stop it here.”

[Glos­sy pro­pa­gan­da Bil­der aus der Ukrai­ne wer­den gezeigt, ich lass die mal weg.]

Scott Pel­ley [Voice over]: Ukrai­ne stop­ped the rus­si­an advan­ce, but at a ter­ri­ble cost. Rui­ned cities. Mil­li­ons of refu­gees. Untold thousands of dead. All for Vla­di­mir Putins nati­on buil­ding vani­ty. Today the war is fought on a 700 mile front. The red area is the 20% of Ukrai­ne, still occu­p­ied by rus­sia. This is whe­re wes­tern dona­ted tanks were sup­po­sed to punch through, cut­ting the rus­si­ans in half.

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But tren­ches and mine­fiel­ds and artil­le­ry stop­ped the armo­red advan­ce. Now its a artil­le­ry duel, with each side firing about 40.000 shells a day. Ukrai­ni­an infan­try is advan­cing, bloo­dy, yards at a time. It’s world war one. With drones.

Scott Pel­ley: “How would you descri­be the figh­t­ing at the front?”

Selen­skyj: “It a dif­fi­cult ques­ti­on, I’ll be com­ple­te­ly honest with you. We have the initia­ti­ve, this is a plus. We stop­ped the rus­si­an offen­si­ve, and we moved into a coun­ter offen­si­ve, but des­pi­te that, its not very fast. It is important that we are moving for­ward every day and are libe­ra­ting territory.”

Scott Pel­ley: “You have about six weeks of good wea­ther left, and I won­der, after that will the front be fro­zen in place?”

Selen­skyj: “We need to libe­ra­te our ter­ri­to­ry as much as pos­si­ble, and move for­ward. Even if it is less than a mile or 100 yards. We must do it. We cant loo­se time. In pla­ces whe­re we cant get through in an armo­red vehi­cle, lets fly. If we cant fly, lets send dro­nes. We mus­tn’t give Putin a break.”

Scott Pel­ley [Voice over]: “If the front is sta­tio­na­ry, ukrai­ni­an dro­nes have vaul­tet into rus­sia its­elf, hit­ting the Krem­lin, war pla­nes and Mos­kow highri­sers. Offi­cial­ly Ukrai­ne does not ack­now­ledge the­se attacks.”

Scott Pel­ley: “The dro­ne strikes in rus­sia are being done on your orders?”

Selen­skyj: “Njiet.”

Scott Pel­ley: “Not on your orders?”

Selen­skyj: “Well, you know - ”

Scott Pel­ley: “How is this happening?”

Selen­skyj: “You know we are not shoo­ting at the ter­ri­to­ry of the rus­si­an federation.”

Scott Pel­ley [Voice over]: “We deci­ded to try the ques­ti­on ano­t­her way.”

Scott Pel­ley: “What mes­sa­ge is being sent with the­se dro­ne strikes in russia?”

Selen­sky: “You do know, that we use our part­ners wea­pons on the ter­ri­to­ry of Ukrai­ne only, and this is true. But the­se are not puni­ti­ve ope­ra­ti­ons, such as they car­ry out, kil­ling civi­li­ans! But rus­sia needs to know, that whe­re­ver it is, which ever place they use to strike ukrai­ne, ukrai­ne has every moral right to send a respon­se to tho­se pla­ces. We are respon­ding to them, say­ing - your sky is not as well pro­tec­ted as you think.”

Scott Pel­ley [Voice over]: “Last win­ter it was ukrai­ni­an skys that were fil­led with mis­si­les. In a rus­si­an bom­bard­ment to des­troy power­plants. Mil­li­ons shi­ve­r­ed in the dark. With win­ter approa­ching again, Selen­skyj had this warning.”

Selen­sky: “They must know, if you cut off our power, depri­ve us of electri­ci­ty, depri­ve us of water, depri­ve us of gaso­li­ne, you need to know, we have the right to do it to you.”

Scott Pel­ley [Voice over]: “Rus­sia takes Selen­skyj serious­ly now, becau­se Putins mass inva­si­on was a fias­ko. The red marks whe­re ukrai­ne stop­ped rus­si­as advan­ce last year.”

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[Die Kar­te ist wie­der aus Kar­ten meh­re­rer Tage “zusam­men­ge­malt” wie auch schon bei Kar­ten des ISW üblich, die die BBC in der Ver­gan­gen­heit ver­öf­fent­licht hat. Dh. es gab kei­nen ein­zel­nen Tag zu dem Russ­land die­se Aus­deh­nung erreicht hat. Nur meh­re­re. Vgl.: click ( - timel­aps von ISW Mate­ri­al, max. Aus­deh­nung am 28.03.2022.]

It also marks the stain of rus­si­as war crimes.”

Scott Pel­ley: “Mr. Pre­si­dent, in tra­ve­ling over Ukrai­ne in the past year and a half, we spo­ke to peop­le in bom­bed out schools in Cher­ni­hiv. We’­ve seen des­troy­ed apart­ment blocks in Borod­jan­ka and a bom­bed hos­pi­tal in Isjum. Civi­li­ans in a mass gra­ve in Butscha. The­se are not mili­ta­ry tar­gets. What is Vla­di­mir Putin try­ing to do?”

Selen­sky: “And by choo­sing civi­li­an tar­gets, Putin wan­ted to achie­ve exact­ly this. To break us. This per­son who has made his way with such bloo­dy actions, with ever­ything he has said - can not be trusted.

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The­re is no trust in such a per­son. Becau­se he has not been a human being for a long time.”

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Scott Pel­ley thin­king about Putin not having been a human being for a long time.

Scott Pel­ley: “The rus­si­ans have suf­fe­red grie­vous los­ses. Without resor­ting to nuclear wea­pons, and I won­der if you belie­ve that the thre­at of nuclear war is now behind us.”

Selen­sky: “I think he is going to con­ti­nue threa­tening. He is wai­t­ing for the United Sta­tes to beco­me less sta­ble, he thinks, thats going to hap­pen during the US elec­tions. He’ll be loo­king for insta­bi­li­ty in Euro­pe and the United Sta­tes of Ame­ri­ca. He will use the risk of using nuclear wea­pons to fuel that insta­bi­li­ty. He will be going on threatening.”

Scott Pel­ley [Voice over]: “That US elec­tion he men­tio­ned, worries him, his nego­tia­ti­ons with pre­si­dent Biden have been con­ten­tious at times, but Selen­skyj tends to get what he asks for - even if in Selen­sky­js opi­ni­on - it is gene­ral­ly six moths too late. This week Selen­skyj will press Mr. Biden for mis­si­les with lon­ger ran­ge. Con­gress is deba­ting ano­t­her 24 bil­li­on package.”

Selen­sky: “And if ukrai­ne had enough of the­se modern sys­tems, we would have alrea­dy res­to­red the ter­ri­to­ri­al inte­gri­ty of ukrai­ne. We would have alrea­dy done that. The­se sys­tems exist..!”

Scott Pel­ley [Ein­spie­ler]: “Are you safe here?”

Scott Pel­ley [Voice over]: “We first met Selen­skyj not long after the inva­si­on, when his office was a bla­cked out bunker.

Selen­sky [Ein­spie­ler]: “Be careful!”

Scott Pel­ley [Voice over]: “Now a year and a half later, we noti­ced a dif­fe­rence. As we were set­ting up the inter­view, the for­mer actor used his talent to mask the strain. He smi­led at a com­pli­ment, to his wife.”

Selen­sky: “Yeah… So great.”

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Scott Pel­ley [Voice over]: “And then instant­ly he see­med pul­led bene­ath a depth -

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no one can know. We dont know what he was thin­king. It loo­ked like

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For the lost.

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And for tho­se - who might be saved.

Scott Pel­ley [Voice over]: “Our time with Selen­skyj began in silence.”

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A remem­be­rence of the fal­len, during a cere­mo­ny to award medals of valor. Ukrai­ni­an offi­cials tell us, Ukrai­ne and rus­sia have lost their pro­fes­sio­nal armies. Now their for­ces are made up of volon­te­ers, draf­tees and in rus­si­as case - pri­son inma­tes. Selen­skyj counts his dead in casu­al­ty reports each morning.”

Scott Pel­ley [Ein­spie­ler]: “You are the pre­si­dent. It must be humb­ling to meet the­se men, I won­der what they mean to you?”

[Darn Micro Expres­si­ons. Nie kann man sie mas­kie­ren, wenn man sie nicht zei­gen will.]

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Selen­skyj: “What they, ehm - to me…

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First of all it is a gre­at honor for me. I look into their eyes and -

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it makes me proud, that we have such strong people.

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edit: Kon­text

Becau­se - this is a big risk, a big risk. You can defi­ni­te­ly loo­se your life for the sake of saving other lives. And when I say other lives I dont speak in gene­ral, I mean my own life. The lives of my child­ren, and I under­stand com­ple­te­ly what risks are involved.”

Scott Pel­ley [Voice over]: “That empa­thy for life has Volo­di­mir Selen­skyj reaching out - again. To the United Nati­ons and the United Sta­tes, hoping to con­vin­ce the allies, that the world can be safe, only, when Ukrai­ne is whole.


[Back in the inter­view setup]

Scott Pel­ley: “Can you give up - any part of Ukrai­ne, for peace?”

Selen­sky: “No, this is our territory.”

Scott Pel­ley: “You must have it all? Inclu­ding crimea?”

Selen­sky: “Today - you and I, you said it to me, YOU SAW ME AWARDING PEOPLE MEDALS! Today is a day like that. A week ago I gave awards to par­ents of sol­di­ers who have been kil­led. The­re were 24 fami­lies of the dead. The­re was a woman, she was with three children.

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the­re were par­ents, very old. They could bare­ly walk -

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and they had only one son. 

One of the women was pregnant!

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She arri­ved hol­ding a baby in her arms, and she was pregnant!

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And that baby will never see… what should I tell them? That all of them died so we could say - its OK rus­sia, you can take it all?!

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Its a dif­fi­cult job! You under­stand me, right?! Giving awards to peop­le who­se faces show their who­le world has collapsed?!

And all I can give them, all I can -

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give them - is…

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[Well, bes­i­des the awards of course.]

PROPAGANDA (and a low key death obses­si­on) HAT ABER IMMER NOCH NIEMAND ENTDECKT.

Ich wür­de sagen, nach die­ser Gol­den Glo­bes Award wür­di­gen Insze­nie­rung eines bit­ter­kal­ten Win­ters vor dem Sturm, ich mei­ne Früh­lings - kann die US nicht anders als der Ukrai­ne Rake­ten zuzu­sa­gen, und nach den 24 Mil­li­ar­den auch kei­ne Pau­se im Fun­ding im Wahl­kampf­jahr einzulegen.

Wie sag­te Nuland auf der YES Con­fe­rence vor etwas mehr als einer Woche so schön? Wir sind hier öffent­lich, ich muss dem Publi­kum hier fol­gen­des sagen - die Ukrai­ne soll nicht auf zu viel Unter­stüt­zung hoffen.

Die­se Gesell­schaft ist das abso­lut gro­tesk, abar­tigst Allerletzte.

Auf den mehr­jäh­ri­gen Krieg.

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